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Author Topic: Hard to start when motor is warm/hot  (Read 1379 times)
phudgee
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« on: October 13, 2008, 12:58:01 PM »

Hi,

First off, there was an old forum linked to off a site named something like "How to Restore Your VW Beetle without Going Broke" or something like that that I used to post in years ago, and some guy named Boatcop always had the right answers. That forum is long gone, and I googled Boatcop and found this site.

I guess the chance that two guys using the moniker Boatcop, who both like aircooled VWs is pretty slim, so I assume that you are he. If so, thanks for all the great help I've gotten from you in the past, and nice new site!

It doesn't look like it's received many posts this year, but you were always helpful in the past, and I'm hoping you check here every once in a while for new posts as again, I've got a question. So here goes:

I've since sold my old 74 SunBug, and obtained a 63 Ragtop.

It's in great shape, and runs well. However, when the motor is warm/hot, it's hard to get it started again. I have to hold the pedal to the floor and keep the key engaged for quite some time and it will eventually start. It actually starts better cold than hot.

What could cause this?

Thanks again!
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BoatCop
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2008, 01:54:25 PM »

HI Phudgee! Glad you found us.

I would start with all the basics. Adjust valves, carb, choke, check plugs, wires, points, etc.

Also check the fan belt tension. If it's too tight it could be putting a strain on the engine when warm and making it hard to start.

I find that a general tune up on these engines will cure 95% of the annoying little problems.
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Alan
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phudgee
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 04:14:15 PM »

Wow that was quick! Smiley

Thanks for the suggestions. I have already replaced all the plugs, wires, points, etc.. adjusted the valves, and cleaned up and adjusted the carb and timing.

I had never heard the belt issue, so I'll look into that, and see what I find.

Also, all the literature I've found on adjusting the carb talks about the two screws on the side, and say something like screw them in all the way then unscrew them like 2 1/2 turns or something similar. Is this the best instruction on setting these valves? Is there a better document somewhere on the web explaining how to properly adjust a carb?

Thanks again for the tips. I'll let you know what I find out on the belt.
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BoatCop
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 04:41:24 PM »

I'm home today with nothing to do.  Grin

Does you carburator look something like this?

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Alan
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phudgee
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 06:40:33 PM »

Yep, that's the one!

And #1 and #2 in the drawing are the two adjustment screws I was referring to.

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BoatCop
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 07:45:20 PM »

Yep, that's the one!

And #1 and #2 in the drawing are the two adjustment screws I was referring to.

OK. Here's my stock carb adjustment instructions:


There is a lever on the left side (left is left side of car) with a cable connected to it. This is the Throttle Lever.

On the throttle lever is a small screw which sticks out towards the back of the car. This is the Idle Adjustment Screw.

The idle adjustment screw rests on a strange-looking flat piece of metal with steps cut in it. This is the Fast Idle Cam, and works with the choke to give a reliable idle on a cold engine.

The engine must be warm to set the carb, so that the choke is off, and the Idle Adjustment Screw is sitting at the bottom of these steps (at the BOTTOM, not on any of the steps themselves). Directly beneath the fast idle cam on the left side of the carburetor you will see a screw with a spring wrapped around it. This is the Volume Control Screw.

On the side of the carburetor body is a barrel-shaped object, about the size of a pen-light battery, with a wire connected to the outer end. This is the Idle Fuel Cutoff Valve (solenoid). This shuts of the fuel when you turn off the engine, to prevent 'running on'. Be sure the wire is connected and runs to the (+) terminal on the coil. (This usually runs off the same wire which attaches to the choke.)

Also make sure that this solenoid is screwed into the carb snuggly, and not rattling loose. Don't overtighten it though, it's got a fine brass thread and screws into aluminium - both quite soft metals. You can test the operation of this solenoid very easily. Turn on the ignition, and pull off the wire on the valve. Touch the wire on the connector, and you should hear a clicking sound as the valve inside moves. If not, check for 12 volts on the wire (small trouble light, voltmeter etc), and replace the solenoid if required - if it's not working, you won't get a proper idle, and you'll get rough running at traffic speeds too.

As stated previously, make sure your engine is warm and the choke butterfly standing upright. Make sure the air cleaner is ON when adjusting the carburettor--the engine expects it to be there.


Turn the Volume Control Screw in all the way - GENTLY PLEASE. It is a needle valve, and you don't want to enlarge the hole by forcing it home. Now unscrew it 2.5 turns. This is the starting point for the adjustment.


Start the engine, and turn the Idle Adjustment Screw in or out to set the idle at 850 RPM. I'll let you work out how to measure 850 rpm - but it's a fast idle. (See our idle adjustment procedure.)


Then turn the Volume Control Screw in slowly until the engine speed begins to drop, then turn it out until the engine runs at its highest idle speed. It should still be within about ½ turn from the start setting of 2.5 turns. If the hole has been damaged by a previous careless person, you'll just have to do the best you can. Now screw it in until the revs 'just' start to drop - about 30rpm. This is the final setting.


Reset the idle speed again with the Idle Adjustment Screw. Don't slow the idle too much, 800-850 is about right. VWs need a few revs at idle to keep the cooling air flowing, otherwise when you coast to a stop at the lights after cruising at a good speed, your hot engine won't get enough cooling air, and it won't like you very much.

(I didn't write this. It's an old instruction sheet I keep on file when I have to tune-up my Bug.)


Good Luck.



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Alan
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phudgee
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 01:14:33 PM »

Cool thanks a bunch!

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phudgee
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 03:20:06 PM »

Ok,

I have the book "How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" and it says your belt should flex between 1/2" and 3/4". I'm confident  I'm inside that range.

I followed your guide for adjusting the carb, but I'm not sure I'm tweaking the right screws. In your thing, it says "directly beneath the cam is the Volume Control Screw." It also says it has a spring wrapped around it.

The screws I'm adjusting are labeled #1 and #2 in your drawing. They are also countersunk, so I can see no spring.

Ive also snapped a couple photos. As you can see there are many things "plugged" on my carb. I don't know if this is common or not, but in the one of the left side of the carb, there is a piece of hose with a screw in it, which is plugging something. That location fits your post's description of the location of the Volume Control screw better than #1 or #2 from your diagram.

So should all these things be plugged? And am I adjusting the correct screw? It still seems to take it an extra long time to start warm.

Thanks!





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BoatCop
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 07:43:29 PM »

The larger screw (#1) is the Idle speed adjustment. (Not to be confused with the idle adjustment screw that rests on the choke plate on the back of the carb)

The smaller one (#2) is the Volume Control Adjustment

Yes. Those vacuum ports should be plugged. They're for various other things, like a vacuum advanced distributor. Since you don't have a line going to the Distributor, I am presuming you have a .009 centrifugal advance dist.

Double check timing. That also has a lot to do with hard hot start.

Timing is based on the distributor ONLY. The year of the car and/or engine have nothing to do with timing. Verify which distributor you have. There should be numbers stamped on teh side of the body. They'll look something like this:

126-905-205
or
0231 178 009

Let me know what numbers are on the distributor, and I'll get the correct timing settings for you.
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Alan
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phudgee
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 12:48:18 PM »

Hi,

the number on my dizzy is 0231 178 009


But before we go any further with that, let me tell you what I found today.

I just drove the beetle to pick my son up from school - immediately upon returning, i threw open the trunk to get those numbers, and to adjust the volume control as I apparently was adjusting the wrong one before.

But heres what I noticed..... I heard a gurggling sound, and noticed gas dripping from where the throttle lever is bolted to the carb, I also noticed gas dripping from the other side of the carb which is also a part of the throttle lever..... it was also dripping from the left hand side plugged port on the rear facing side of the carb.

I pulled the air filter, and gas was flowing into my carb... i worked the throttle lever with my fingers a few times, and it squirted gas as its supposed to, but the gas going in without throttle continued... it eventually slowed to a drip, and then stopped. We're talking maybe a total of 5 minutes or so...

Im guessing the hard start when warm is because my engine's flooded maybe? Maybe I need to figure out why it's still putting gas in the carb after the engine is off....

thoughts?


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BoatCop
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2008, 05:19:08 PM »

Looks like you found the problem.

First thing to check is the idle cut-off solenoid.
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Alan
BoatCop
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